BRIDGE REPLACEMENT ON US 90 OVER ST. LOUIS BAY HANCOCK AND HARRISON COUNTIES, MISSISSIPPI PROJECT NO. ER/BR-0003-01(098) 104555/101000 US 90 ST. LOUIS BAY BRIDGE REPLACEMENT PREPROPOSAL MEETING THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2005 ____________________________________________________ PREPROPOSAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 10, 2005 ____________________________________________________ APPEARANCES: HARRY JAMES, MDOT TOM BRYANT, URS DAVID FOSTER, MDOT MITCH CARR, MDOT JOHN PICKERING, MDOT KEVIN DELVA, URS RICHARD SHEFFIELD, MDOT At Mississippi Department of Transportation 2567 North West Street, Building D, 2nd Floor Jackson, Mississippi On November 10, 2005, at 9:00 a.m. REPORTED BY: SHAUNA STANFORD, CSR CSR NO. 1380 2 1 MR. JAMES: Good morning. How are y'all 2 this morning? We have a good crowd, a lot of 3 friendly faces. A lot of folks I know, a lot of 4 you I don't know. 5 I'm Harry James. I'm the Deputy Director 6 and Chief Engineer with MDOT. I would like to 7 welcome you to this kickoff meeting for the 8 Design Build project for Bay St. Louis. Again, a 9 lot of folks that we've done business with in the 10 past, and that's a good sign because that's 11 certainly what we wanted to see, a lot of 12 participation. Engineers, contractors, 13 suppliers, and everything. 14 I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I 15 feel like I've been in a jet airplane since about 16 three days before Katrina hit. And it ain't 17 going to stop for a while, I can tell you. Our 18 folks have been in fast-forward since then from 19 before the hurricane all the way through the 20 event and now. We had a Design Build project set 21 up to go to contract sometime this spring, and 22 then we had this dropped on us. Our director 23 said to get it done and we have the folks that 24 know how to do it and consequently we are here. 25 I want to introduce the MDOT staff that's 3 1 worked on this. Let's go around. We've got 2 Richard Sheffield, Assistant Chief Engineer 3 Operations; John Pickering, Roadway Design 4 Engineer; Mitch Carr, our Bridge Engineer; David 5 Foster, Assistant Chief over Preconstruction; 6 Ricky Lee is the District Engineer out of 7 Hattiesburg; Brad Lewis there is State 8 Construction Engineer; Dan Smith, Right of Way 9 Division Administrator; Melinda McGrath, 10 Assistant Chief Engineer over field operations. 11 Anybody else with MDOT? I have a couple of folks 12 that I see that I want to say MDOT, but they have 13 since retired. But we still claim them. Jim 14 back there in the back, George, a few others. 15 We also are fortunate to have directing, 16 orchestrating our efforts, URS. We've got 17 Mr. Jim Codell here; Tom Bryant; Kevin Delva; and 18 Deedra Dickey, the little girl out front. You 19 know her. She's going to stay out there for any 20 latecomers that come about. And then our court 21 reporter here, Shauna Stanford. She's going to 22 be taking copious notes, which will become a part 23 of this meeting. 24 I would like to have one representative from 25 each team, the short list team, just to stand up 4 1 and introduce yourself and maybe identify the 2 teams, you know, not by name, who is here so we 3 can get a feel for who's here, you know, your 4 partners in your team. 5 MR. ELMORE: I'm Tom Elmore, Eutaw 6 Construction. Our team consists of L&A, F&S 7 Prestress, Howard Needles' Tammen with Bergendoff 8 Engineering Firm, RS&H, and Eutaw Construction. 9 Archer Western. 10 MR. FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich with Boh 11 Brothers. Our team is Michael Baker back there 12 and Jacobs Civil out of Tampa. 13 MR. JACOBSON: And I'm Keith Jacobson with 14 GC Constructors. Our team is Massman 15 Construction Company, Traylor Brothers, and 16 Gilbert Southern Corporation. We have Parsons 17 Transportation Group with us, WGK with us, Eustis 18 Engineering with us. We have Wallace 19 Construction, Key Construction with us as well, 20 and I've probably forgotten one or two. 21 MR. FLETTRICH: Volkert. 22 MR. JACOBSON: Got Volkert with us. Thank 23 you. 24 MR. JAMES: Okay. All right. Where did 25 Paul go? Oh, there you are. You're hiding back 5 1 there. You're the spy today, but we do welcome 2 you here. I think it will be beneficial for 3 these folks to meet you. 4 And then last but not least, we want to 5 thank our federal highway partners in the back: 6 Jeff Schmidt, Randy Jansen back there, who are 7 going to be financing this effort for us. 8 Hopefully at 100 percent if we have our way. 9 Anyway, again, welcome and thank y'all for 10 taking the time to be at a meeting that we feel 11 is very important to the future of the state and 12 rebuilding of the coastal areas. I'm sure each 13 and every one of you has probably been down there 14 or at least flown over to see the devastation 15 that has occurred. The pictures that you've seen 16 in the papers just don't do justice to what you 17 see down there. I know I had the opportunity to 18 go on Wednesday after the storm on Monday, and it 19 just -- it took my breath away. I've never seen 20 something as extensive. 21 Being from Mississippi, I've seen tornadoes 22 before, but they're a mile wide and it's not the 23 same thing. But this is 30 to 50 miles wide, and 24 it's total destruction. 25 But anyway. All right. With that I'm going 6 1 to turn it over to Tom Bryant and let him run the 2 meeting, and I'm going to be at the coffee and 3 donuts in the back. 4 MR. BRYANT: Thank you, chief. I hope I 5 get that right, Harry Lee James. And welcome 6 again. I'm Tom Bryant. My home office is in 7 Denver, but I have relocated here. I've already 8 got an apartment, and we are trucking. And so I 9 look forward to working closely with the 10 successful firm to help assure that we get a good 11 project at the end. 12 Some housekeeping items: We've got some 13 more chairs coming as we speak, and so that 14 should help out the back row there. And then the 15 bathrooms are right out the door. One says, 16 "Whoa, men," so stop there on that one and just 17 go a little deeper there and you'll find the 18 men's right behind us. 19 I think that we've had a good participation 20 on the sign-in sheets. So has anybody not signed 21 in that we need to bring the sheet to you, we can 22 do that. Good job. 23 We have new milestone dates, and all of you 24 should have a copy of that. If there's anybody 25 that doesn't have a copy, let me know and Deedra 7 1 can bring it to you. Everybody have them? Okay. 2 Take a close look at it because that should be an 3 evolutionary document. It's changing all the 4 time. 5 On my opening remarks, I am going to 6 cover -- David Foster and I are going to cover 7 four areas. 8 David, did you want to say anything before I 9 run down through my four? 10 MR. FOSTER: Well, let me just say this. 11 I'm not quite as formal as the chief and Tom 12 here, so I'm not going to walk to the podium. 13 Tom's covered the basics where to get something 14 to drink, where to go to take care of other 15 things, and you've already been welcomed. The 16 only thing that I'd like to say is even though 17 we've got an agenda, to me we know each other. 18 Most of us, I know most of you, and I'd like it 19 to be a relaxed-type meeting. I mean, instead of 20 waiting for the end question-and-answer, if 21 during the course of this, if y'all have a 22 question, the only thing that we ask -- and Tom, 23 I might be stepping on you -- is when you ask a 24 question or get ready to ask a question, we need 25 to identify -- you need to identify yourself so 8 1 this lady here can make some good notes, because 2 I believe this is going to be part of the 3 addendum that goes out. 4 So with that I'm going to turn it back over 5 to Tom. But again, welcome and just be at home. 6 MR. BRYANT: Thank you, David. He doesn't 7 need a podium. But anyway, I would like to add 8 one thing to that comment. The fact that when 9 you state your name, also state your company's 10 name. And I know it's going to be kind of 11 repetitive, especially if you've got half a dozen 12 questions. But if there's any space between 13 them, we're going to need to help out the court 14 reporter. So if you'll do that, if you don't, 15 I'll stick my two cents' worth in probably all 16 the time, and I'll try to do it so you won't lose 17 your train of thought. I'll do it at the end. 18 Okay. Design Builds is everywhere doing 19 business, and we touched on that briefly. And I 20 think most of the contractors in the room and the 21 consultants have worked on Design Build before. 22 So that the new player in this three-person team 23 or three team members -- I should say four, the 24 Federal Highway Administration is here today 25 also, and we have Jeff Schmidt in the back, back 9 1 right-hand corner, and he's also a key player in 2 this organization. And so anyway, it's a 3 different way of doing business. 4 So MDOT, this is all new to them, but we 5 brought in some good people and some horsepower, 6 and we'll be going through some orientation 7 sessions for MDOT personnel to let them know this 8 is a new way of doing business. And I don't want 9 to pick on anybody, but we started out by sending 10 letters out certified mail, if you recall, and 11 then we quickly changed to FedEx. So you know 12 we -- or Express Mail. So, you know, it's -- 13 we're quick learners, but it's some of the things 14 you'll see that will change and we will do our 15 best to respond quickly to any comment or request 16 for assistance from the contractors, and I 17 personally have a philosophy that I don't hold 18 the contractor up one day for anything. And so 19 in fact, under Design Build, you are allowed to 20 proceed at risk, you know, with no pay until you 21 get your release for construction plans or 22 whatever. So I recognize that, and all my team 23 members recognize that, that it's going to be a 24 new endeavor on the part of MDOT. 25 I want to talk a little bit about project 10 1 delivery of documents. The URS team is going to 2 use -- I think it's called the Meridian Prolog 3 System for electronics. Well, I'm a dinosaur on 4 the computer as some of the older ones in this 5 crowd will also be. But I've got a staff that 6 can set that up and get it running. I have a 7 computer already, a minnie, set aside to handle 8 the thing. So it depends on the contractor and 9 what you want to use, but I would suggest that 10 you also have an electronic system, whichever 11 system that you have, and then we will bring in 12 the people to make sure that we get compatibility 13 between the two documents, a shared database or 14 whatever. And there will be firewalls built on 15 it so documents can't be changed and this kind of 16 thing. But I would suggest the RFIs and all of 17 the project communication be handled 18 electronically, backed up by a signed piece of 19 paper. And that it's a kind of a belt and 20 suspenders, but it helps us to keep good records. 21 I will suggest the contractors also to 22 number your correspondence. I have a numbering 23 system already. And if you want to use ours, 24 fine; if you want to use yours, fine. But if you 25 use yours, there will be two sets of numbers on 11 1 there. So there is document control, it will 2 have our number on it. So if you lose a piece of 3 correspondence, don't fish around to find it. 4 Just call us, and we'll give it to you. So this 5 is a team effort here, and I expect the 6 contractors to do the same for us. If we lose 7 something, we expect to call you up and say, 8 "Hey, you know, this letter dated August 31st, we 9 can't find it. Do you have it?" This kind of a 10 thing. So it's a team effort, and that's what we 11 want. 12 Okay. Any questions on project delivery of 13 documents? 14 MR. FLETTRICH: Do you want us to 15 interrupt? 16 MR. BRYANT: Any time. 17 MR. FLETTRICH: The Meridian systems, are 18 you suggesting -- my name is Al Flettrich with 19 Boh Brothers. 20 Meridian systems, did I understand you to 21 say that we could use our own system? 22 MR. BRYANT: I think so. 23 MR. FLETTRICH: Instead of Meridian? 24 MR. BRYANT: Yes, sir. I think we can 25 work that out. I think that's -- as long as we 12 1 can get them to talk, we're okay. 2 He might use Constructware. I don't know 3 what you use. But I do know that we do -- we can 4 talk with Constructware electronically. 5 Any other questions? Okay. Let's go on. 6 The next one is communications. I used to be the 7 State Engineer in the 1980's, and I remember 8 writing articles clear back in the '80s about 9 good communications. And I consider that to be 10 the key to the successful completion of this 11 project. And it's critical that we all work 12 together to get a quality bridge and approaches 13 that will withstand another Katrina or, God 14 forbid, a Class 5 hurricane. 15 Now, the original bridge lasted 53 years, 16 and this one, we would like to have it last -- I 17 can't remember the number -- was it 75? 18 MR. FOSTER: Seventy-five. 19 MR. BRYANT: Seventy-five is what appears 20 in the documents, so that's exactly what we are 21 striving for. 22 The good, open communications also will 23 serve to keep the project on ahead of schedule, 24 and will assist the contractor in making a profit 25 on this job instead of a loss. You know, it's 13 1 our job to get a quality product, get it done on 2 time. But also we'd like to see you guys stay in 3 business and want to come back to Mississippi and 4 work some more, so we want to see you make some 5 money and, of course, do a good job. 6 My next comment is on the -- any questions 7 on communications? That's just kind of on my 8 soapbox. Okay. 9 Partnering. I have a different philosophy 10 about partnering. And I typically don't follow 11 the sheep and follow the herd along. I have -- 12 every partnering session that I've participated 13 in for the last half a dozen or so, whenever I am 14 able to select a facilitator, which in this case 15 will be a joint effort, I make them do the huggy, 16 good feely part, limit them to the morning 17 go-round on that. And -- because we're all 18 pretty much Type A personalities. You wouldn't 19 be in this room if you weren't. You wouldn't 20 last long. 21 So we go to the afternoon session and we try 22 to solve a problem on the project, so it's a 23 worthwhile meeting instead of just hugging each 24 other and going away. So my partnering 25 philosophy is completely different than the way 14 1 most guys work. Some guys have picked up on this 2 also. Like Larry Miller from down in Phoenix, 3 the ex-Mets pitcher. He's picked up on it. He's 4 doing that too. So there's a number of good 5 people for partnering that I'm sure can be picked 6 who will do a good job. The only time I would 7 expect the partnering facilitator to come back if 8 something gets sticky on the job and we need a 9 little encouragement or a little nurturing to get 10 us back on track. 11 But in partnering, I do things a little bit 12 differently. Also I believe in weekly leadership 13 meetings, I call it. We call it a breakfast 14 meeting up on E470, but either lunch or whatever, 15 and sit down with like five key players: The 16 MDOT person, me, the designer, contractor, the 17 contractor's designer, real small group. We 18 would invite the FHWA to come if they want to. I 19 will do the agenda each week, and we will knock 20 things off so that you will -- if something is 21 coming up that's going to stop you, we're going 22 to try -- our effort is to jump on it, try to 23 solve it. So that's -- helps with 24 communications. 25 And then to bring the whole team into it, I 15 1 do monthly meetings that shouldn't last over an 2 hour. We have an agenda for that. And the 3 monthly meeting, FMI calls it "stand and 4 deliver," if you've heard this term. Well, I 5 can't use that term, but essentially that's what 6 it is. And we'll have, for example, the -- most 7 of us pick a position like we'll have the design 8 coordinator for the contractor stand up and give 9 like three things. He will give what he's 10 accomplished the past month, what he wants to 11 accomplish the next month, and any sticky wickets 12 or anything in his way, and what does he need 13 decisions on. And then Kevin Delva over there, 14 who is my assistant project manager in charge of 15 design, he would do the same. And if -- one 16 month we just rotate, you know, if you want, or 17 one guy can take it all, whoever wants to handle 18 it. It's a team effort. So it works real well, 19 and then that brings the whole team in. And we 20 invite your superintendents in, and we invite 21 your coordinators of utilities or whatever it may 22 be, and we go through this quickly, and we limit 23 each guy to about five, five minutes or ten. We 24 don't have a big, long, written report. I 25 usually ask the project director for his safety 16 1 report right out of the bag. You know, how many 2 lost time accidents have you had this month and 3 where's your average at right now. Just ask them 4 that, and just make it part of the record that 5 we're emphasizing safety. 6 So that kind of gives you a little overview 7 of partnering, and I think because of these steps 8 in partnering, it will improve your 9 communications. It sounds like a lot, but it's 10 not really. It becomes routine and becomes part 11 of the business, and that way you get answers 12 faster. 13 The other thing is that this contract has a 14 new provision for handling disputes. 15 Essentially, it is -- I mentioned partnering 16 where we put in a three-ladder decision-making 17 process, a short ladder with three rungs on it, 18 to handle decisions. And then the second part of 19 the process is the DRB. And I've served on DRBs, 20 and we all know that the contractor picks one, 21 the state picks one, and the two get together to 22 pick a third. But we are wanting to have this to 23 be Mississippi people if possible. And there's 24 no definite requirements on that, but the DRB 25 would come in and we really haven't -- did we 17 1 finalize that until the documents? And I'm not 2 remembering if we finalized that or not. Oh, Roy 3 was a part of that. Did we finalize the 4 frequency, Roy, of the DRB meeting? I can't 5 recall that. I don't recall. Somebody's got the 6 document, but I don't recall. 7 But anyway, we want the DRB to be the second 8 step in the process. The third step is 9 arbitration, and the fourth step is a lawsuit. 10 So it's all pretty clear in that revised -- I 11 think it's 105.17 of the specs, if I can recall 12 the numbers correctly. But just to give you a 13 heads up that there's a completely new process to 14 Mississippi built into this contract. And the 15 reason the arbitration is stuck in there, it's 16 state law. And Roy, what's the dollar amount of 17 arbitration? 18 MR. TIPTON: Anything up to $100,000, of 19 course, still goes to the highway arbitration 20 board. Anything over 100,000, we'll be using -- 21 you'll get to elect binding arbitration at that 22 point in time. So all -- all disputes are 23 subject to binding arbitration, if you so choose. 24 MR. BRYANT: This is Roy Tipton. He's a 25 Special Assistant to the Attorney General of the 18 1 State of Mississippi. 2 Okay. Any questions? All right. All 3 right. At this time, I want to call up Kevin 4 Delva, or he can do it from his seat, to talk a 5 little bit about -- did I get that right? No, I 6 didn't. We've got a new agenda, sorry. 7 First of all, we have Mitch Carr. Mitch is 8 going to talk about structures. 9 MR. CARR: Y'all excuse me. I'm going to 10 come to the podium. 11 MR. JAMES: Back here in the back we've 12 got B.B. House, who's a Contract Administration 13 Engineer for MDOT. He's the most important one 14 here because he's going to make sure y'all get 15 paid every month. Get to know him well. 16 MR. CARR: Thank you. What I'd like to 17 briefly do -- I'm not going to belabor every 18 section in this thing. I'll just talk very, 19 very, from a high level, briefly about the 20 bridge, and then I want to go through a few 21 corrections and addendums that we are going to 22 put out on Exhibit 2B on the structures portion. 23 As everyone probably is aware, this bridge 24 is currently a 1.9-mile-long bridge. It will be 25 slightly longer than that in the final stage 19 1 because we're adding a little bit more bridge to 2 the end. The bridge at the approach spans must 3 clear elevation at 40. That's the low cord 4 elevation for the approach spans. The low cord 5 navigation span is 86.8. That's intended to be 6 85 feet above the mean high water, which is 1.8 7 feet. Those are your key elevations on this 8 project. 9 The foundations are to be concrete 10 components, drilled shafts, concrete piling. The 11 superstructures can be prestressed concrete 12 beams, post tension prestressed concrete beams, 13 or structural steel above elevation 60. And I 14 guess that's probably all I really need to say 15 about it. You may have some other questions 16 about it, but I don't want to get into the 17 details of the whole thing since you can probably 18 read them in the RFP. 19 Looking at the RFP, I call your attention to 20 Section 1.4.1, subsection d. First sentence, it 21 says, "The minimum number of longitudinal girders 22 supporting the entire bridge cross section shall 23 be 7." That is going to change to 8. 24 In Section 1.4.2, bridge substructures, the 25 second sentence reads "Pile caps, if used, 20 1 located in the bay shall have a bottom of the 2 pile cap at elevation -0.5 feet or lower. The 3 word "pile caps" is really -- that's just -- some 4 states or maybe up north of the Mason-Dixon line 5 they call them "pile caps," but down here we call 6 them "footings." So we will change that word to 7 be "footings" if used. 8 In Section 1.4.3 for Bridge Aesthetics, we 9 will be adding a paragraph, and I'd like to read 10 this: "MDOT requires a high degree of aesthetics 11 for the outside barriers on both sides of the 12 bridge -- bay bridge. Proposers shall provide a 13 minimum of three alternate concepts for these 14 barriers which demonstrate the aesthetic features 15 and estimated costs. Two-dimensional drawings 16 and three-dimensional renderings of the barrier 17 concepts are required. For additional barrier 18 requirements, see Section 2.7 in this exhibit. 19 Just a point of clarification. In item -- 20 in Section 1.4.4, the second paragraph, I'll read 21 the sentence: "For the bay bridge, the 22 contractor shall remove and dispose of all 23 existing bridge structure and any other 24 bridge-related debris" -- at this point, we will 25 be inserting the following -- "from within the 21 1 area bordered by," and then the rest of the 2 sentence will be completed as shown: "250 feet 3 on both the left and ride sides of the center 4 line of the existing alignment." 5 In Section 2.1.1, that entire paragraph is 6 going to be replaced with a new paragraph which 7 reads -- this is under the reinforced concrete 8 section: "All concrete shall be designed and 9 produced in accordance with MDOT Standard 10 Specifications, Section 8.4" -- I'm sorry -- 11 "Section 804, Table 3. Cement used in the 12 concrete shall meet the requirements of Section 13 701 of the Standard Specifications." 14 Is that right? 15 MR. SHEFFIELD: That's correct. 16 MR. CARR: In Section 2.1.1.4, Special 17 Consideration for Bridge Decks, an item c will be 18 added: "Final surface texture of the bridge deck 19 shall be mechanically transverse groove in 20 accordance with the Sections 501 and 804 of the 21 Standard Specifications." 22 I call your attention to Section 2.4.1 23 subsection b, and also 2.4.2 subsection a. The 24 sentences are going to be replaced with the 25 following: "All bridges over waterways must be 22 1 designed or evaluated in accordance with 23 CFR 2 650 FHWA Technical Advisory "Evaluating Scour at 3 Bridges," October 28th, 1991, Hydraulic 4 Engineering Circular 18, or otherwise known as 5 HEC 18, and any other State or Federal 6 regulations as appropriate." 7 And Section 2.7, bridge barriers. At the 8 end of the section, an additional one-sentence 9 paragraph will be added. It just simply says, 10 "For additional barrier requirements," it refers 11 you back to Section 1.4.4 in this Exhibit. And 12 for clarity, just in case you're not sure what we 13 were talking about, in Section 2.9 subsection b, 14 the sentence refers to the "see-through railing." 15 To be consistent with the way we refer to that is 16 actually "open-style railing." 17 Under Section 3.4.3, the first sentence: 18 "All retaining walls shall have one soil test 19 boring performed at least 75 feet along the wall 20 line if the wall is within 150 feet of the bridge 21 abutments." The 150 feet is now changed to 500 22 feet. The second sentence: "Retaining walls 23 more than the 150 feet," that changes also to 500 24 feet. 25 Section 3.4.6, Bridge Approach Settlement. 23 1 Richard, I may need a little help here, but I 2 believe this entire section came out. Do you 3 have any comments about that other than that 4 section has come out? 5 MR. SHEFFIELD: If you want me to address 6 that. On the bridge approach settlement, I think 7 we had some prescriptive language in there that 8 we just took out. Each one of you firms have 9 indicated your geotechnical groups that will be 10 working with you, and all of them that showed up 11 in the original submittals are familiar with MDOT 12 procedures on how we mitigate settlement at 13 bridge end, so we just took it out. And that to 14 us is part of the design process. We're not 15 going to be prescriptive on that. 16 MR. CARR: That is all the changes I had 17 to Section 2.b at this time. Does anyone else -- 18 has anyone else seen anything that they've looked 19 at? 20 MR. BRYANT: Well, I just wanted to 21 comment, Mitch, there are other changes, and 22 these changes will be handled in an addenda, 23 addendum singular, and that will be issued 24 probably next Tuesday, and so your St. Louis 25 Bay -- by the way, it is St. Louis Bay in the 24 1 terminology -- that will be a complete new 2 document. So it makes it easier on you to look 3 at and it will have highlighted for you and a 4 vertical line at the edge. That way you'll look 5 at a whole, complete new document. 6 MR. CARR: I guess now we'll just open it 7 up if anyone needs something clarified or have a 8 question about some section in -- 9 MR. FLETTRICH: I've got a question. I 10 don't know if it's in section -- Al Flettrich, 11 Boh Brothers. I don't know if it's in Section 12 2.2b. You mentioned 250 feet wide for clearing. 13 Do you have a depth -- an elevation depth -- that 14 it has to be, debris has to be removed to? 15 MITCH CARR: The bridge debris itself is 2 16 feet below the mud line. In other words, the 17 existing piling foundation, et cetera, out there 18 is 2 feet below the mud line. That's Coast Guard 19 requirements. 20 MR. FLETTRICH: What mud line? 21 MITCH CARR: The bottom, 2 feet below the 22 bottom. 23 MR. FLETTRICH: I believe there's new mud 24 lines, and there's old mud lines. 25 MITCH CARR: Whatever's out there right 25 1 now is what we're calling the mud line. So 2 2 feet below the mud line. 3 DAVE SWEENEY: Dave Sweeney, Reynolds 4 Smith and Hills on the Granite Archer Western 5 team. The profile statement regarding the low 6 cord elevation of 40 feet, that applies to 7 between shorelines? 8 MITCH CARR: That's correct. Realizing 9 that you've got to come back down to an abutment, 10 and I think there's some language, it's either 11 this one or the other roadway document. We're 12 shooting for around about approximately 20 feet 13 at the abutments, so an appropriate grade as you 14 stay within the roadway requirements for a grade 15 to get down to that abutment height. There's 16 also some vertical clearance restrictions on the 17 east side over Third Avenue. I believe there's a 18 17-foot clearance there, so however you can work 19 your grade out to make that tie-in. 20 DAVE SWEENEY: The reference to an 21 elevation of 20, is -- that's a profile grade 22 line reference? 23 MITCH CARR: What we call a "finish 24 grade." 25 DAVE SWEENEY: Finish grade, okay. Top of 26 1 the roadway. 2 MITCH CARR: That's correct. And keep in 3 mind that's approximate, and we'll certainly be 4 willing to look at whatever you have to come up 5 with in your design, realizing that sometimes 6 grades and locations have to be worked out. 7 DAVE SWEENEY: And that -- that elevation 8 applies to both ends of the bridge, east and 9 west? 10 MITCH CARR: That's correct. Am I stating 11 that correctly, John? 12 JOHN PICKERING: Well, it certainly is on 13 the west end. But on the east shoreline, the 14 profile would still have to be up high in order 15 to clear the Third Avenue. So we certainly don't 16 want to come down to 20 and back up over Third. 17 We'd like the grade to be a smooth grade and not 18 a roller coaster. 19 MITCH CARR: Yes, sir. 20 KEITH JACOBSON: Mitch, Keith Jacobson 21 with GC Constructors. Along the same line as 22 that question, do you anticipate that that lower 23 cord elevation of 40 will change? Because you 24 say in the proposal there's a further analysis. 25 MITCH CARR: Those elevations were set by 27 1 preliminary analysis, and the extent that they 2 may change I don't have an answer for that. We 3 can tell you that we expect to have an answer for 4 that around the end of the first week in January 5 or the beginning of the second week in January. 6 KEITH JACOBSON: All right. Biloxi -- 7 following question on the Biloxi RFP, you've set 8 the lower cord elevation at 34 or 5, if I recall 9 right, which is based on some other assumption. 10 Obviously, to design the structures on the low 11 level for a 40 elevation, we've got to take into 12 certain accounts stability analysis, preclude 13 some other design options, and then sometime in 14 January, you may ultimately lower it 5 or 10 15 feet. 16 MITCH CARR: Yeah. I can't anticipate how 17 much. Ten feet would be a stretch. 18 KEITH JACOBSON: All right. Back to a 19 follow-up question that was asked earlier 20 relative to you say it's going to flow into the 21 abutment set at about elevation point. You 22 indicated that that is the roadway elevation, not 23 the bearing seat elevation. Is it necessary that 24 we terminate the abutments that high or we send 25 the abutments back even at a lower elevation? 28 1 MITCH CARR: I think we'll work with you 2 to look at what you're trying to shoot for. We 3 want a decent grade. We want it -- don't want it 4 to drop off. At the same time, we want to keep 5 the bridge at this -- as much of it as we can at 6 this higher elevation toward the bank. We don't 7 want to have it drop off before you even get to 8 the shoreline. 9 KEITH JACOBSON: And not looking at the 10 drop-off issues which are not an abutment fill 11 the height of the retaining structures if it's -- 12 if we're able to go back further to lower the 13 abutment height, that's not an issue. 14 MITCH CARR: I think we'll work with you 15 on that. 16 KEVIN DELVA: I think the question that 17 he's asking is does the abutment have to be 18 located there, can it be moved more inland. 19 KEITH JACOBSON: In more inland to reduce 20 its height. 21 MITCH CARR: There are some roadway 22 restrictions I know -- 23 KEITH JACOBSON: Forget the clearance. 24 MITCH CARR: -- on the west side. 25 KEITH JACOBSON: If there's a clearance 29 1 issue -- 2 MITCH CARR: Right. But I mean on the 3 west side about the location horizontally on the 4 alignment. Is that correct, John? 5 JOHN PICKERING: Well, the alignment has 6 to stay within the existing right of way, yeah. 7 And whether that would be on bridge or retaining 8 wall, you may have to use bridge or retaining 9 wall just to stay within the existing right of 10 way. 11 KEITH JACOBSON: But that's a decision we 12 make. You're not hung up it has to be at 20 if, 13 in fact, it could drop down to 15 -- 14 JOHN PICKERING: Right. On the bridge 15 above, that's correct. 16 MR. FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh 17 Brothers. 18 TOM BRYANT: Wait a second. I want to 19 make sure the record is clear that John did not 20 agree to 15 feet. Okay? 21 KEITH JACOBSON: Yes, sir. 22 TOM BRYANT: Thank you. 23 KEITH JACOBSON: Let the record show that 24 I led him in that direction. 25 MR. FLETTRICH: Along those same lines, if 30 1 you would go to 15 feet or lower, are retaining 2 walls absolutely required or can you just use 3 fill? 4 MITCH CARR: The retaining wall is 5 required for the protection of the abutments. 6 That doesn't mean if the abutment is sitting on 7 the ground, you know, obviously you can't put 8 retaining walls in front of it. But we 9 anticipate the abutment is still going to have 10 some elevation above the normal, the ground 11 elevation. 12 AL FLETTRICH: And you want retaining 13 walls and not just -- 14 MITCH CARR: That's correct. 15 KEITH JACOBSON: As long as -- again, it's 16 Keith Jacobson. As long as you're still in 2b, 17 which is the bridge design area, are 78-inch bulb 18 T's going to be allowed in the state of 19 Mississippi? 20 MITCH CARR: Certainly. 21 TOM BRYANT: Wait a second. This is Tom 22 Bryant. I think most of your questions have 23 already been asked, Keith, and we do have answers 24 prepared. They are already finished, and we 25 should be able to send those out about Monday. 31 1 So if you want to wait, you can do that, or you 2 can bring them up here; your choice. 3 KEITH JACOBSON: Let me just take a moment 4 to comment, then. You've got a very tight 5 timetable for us to produce a product by December 6 9. The fact that you're going to now give us 7 answers on Monday, addendums on Tuesday, we need 8 to produce designs by Friday of next week in 9 order that we have an opportunity to price the 10 work to turn in to -- prepare the proposal to 11 turn it in by the 9th and be reasonably 12 responsive. Time is of essence on everything, 13 and I think every contractor would like to have 14 as many answers as they could receive today and 15 have those confirmed in writing. 16 TOM BRYANT: Keith, I'm sorry. I was -- I 17 think I didn't hear the last part of your 18 statement, but we will get it out late today or 19 early morning, the answers to your questions. 20 KEITH JACOBSON: All right. 21 DAVE SWEENEY: Dave Sweeney, Reynolds 22 Smith and Hills, Granite Archer Western team. In 23 Section 2.10 of Exhibit 2b, you discuss abutment 24 sea walls, and I've got a couple of questions in 25 regard to that. 32 1 MITCH CARR: Okay. 2 DAVE SWEENEY: Are those abutment sea 3 walls at both the east and the west locations? 4 MITCH CARR: There is certainly going to 5 be a sea wall required on the west location at 6 the Bay St. Louis end. I'm going to anticipate a 7 sea wall being necessary on land as far in as our 8 abutment is on the east end. 9 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin with HNTB on 10 the Granite Archer Western team. Would there be 11 a sea wall required at the bend of the east end 12 of the bridge? Not at the abutment but closer to 13 where the water edge is? 14 MITCH CARR: We don't have any 15 requirements for anything other than sea walls at 16 abutments. 17 DAVE SWEENEY: Dave Sweeney, Reynolds 18 Smith and Hills, Granite Archer Western. So if 19 the abutment is well inland, there's no 20 requirement for a sea wall on that end? 21 MITCH CARR: That determination has to be 22 made about how far inland it is. Obviously, the 23 one Pass Christian side, if you will, the east 24 side of that abutment is near that intersection 25 that we have called the "touchdown." It won't be 33 1 necessary to have a sea wall at that location. 2 DAVE SWEENEY: A follow-up question. Same 3 person. For locations where there are sea walls 4 required, what are the transverse limits of those 5 sea walls relative to the proposed alignment or 6 relative to the existing alignment? 7 MITCH CARR: Obviously have to be within 8 the right of way. 9 DAVE SWEENEY: So right-of-way line to 10 right-of-way line? And the top elevation of that 11 sea wall, is that something that MDOT is going to 12 prescribe? 13 MITCH CARR: We'll have to look at that 14 question. 15 DAVE SWEENEY: Okay. 16 MITCH CARR: And answer that in an 17 addendum. 18 JOHN BRESTIN: Follow-up question on that, 19 the same sea wall. The extent of the sea wall, 20 it seems to me that it wouldn't have to go to 21 from right-of-way line to right-of-way line. It 22 could be something smaller than that as long as 23 it protects the abutment. 24 MITCH CARR: We would -- 25 TOM BRYANT: Excuse me. Would you 34 1 identify yourself again, please? 2 JOHN BRESTIN: Yes. I'm John Brestin with 3 HNTB, Granite Archer Western. 4 MITCH CARR: If you had some way of 5 terminating it within the right of way that was, 6 I guess, acceptable to MDOT when we looked at it, 7 we would certainly work with you. The whole 8 point of the sea wall is to try to protect the 9 abutments. 10 BILL HARTSFIELD: Bill Hartsfield with 11 Parsons. You require a minimum deck of 8 inches, 12 and also a quarter-inch of that was -- does that 13 mean you have to have an 8 1/4-inch deck? 14 MITCH CARR: Eight-and-a-quarter-inch 15 deck. 16 BILL HARTSFIELD: I have another question 17 too. Since OEA is now excluded as a conflict of 18 interest, are y'all going to provide any kind of 19 preliminary database to us at this stage? 20 MITCH CARR: No preliminary scour data. 21 You can just do your scour analysis based on the 22 requirements that -- I guess I read out very 23 lengthy requirements. It's the normal 23CFR650 24 HEC 18 requirements for scour analysis. 25 BILL HARTSFIELD: Okay. And also a 35 1 follow-up on that. With the successful team, is 2 OEA going to be contracted with Mississippi for 3 the design base? Or will they be allowed to then 4 work with -- 5 MR. JAMES: We had talked about that 6 initially. I'm Harry Lee James. That at the 7 time once the contractor signed, OEA would still 8 work for MDOT so we would make their services 9 available to the team on anything that came up. 10 That's our position right now. 11 AL FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh Brothers. 12 It's our understanding that you are requiring a 13 single bridge. Is there any consideration for 14 two separate bridges? 15 MITCH CARR: If you want to propose that, 16 that's certainly an option we would consider. 17 AL FLETTRICH: Not prohibited? 18 MITCH CARR: Not prohibited. 19 TOM BRYANT: Okay. If there's no further 20 questions on structures, our next speaker is 21 David Foster to talk about utilities and right of 22 way. 23 DAVID FOSTER: Regarding right of way 24 first. It's stated in the contract documents all 25 construction has got to be within existing MDOT 36 1 right of way. Now, MDOT has the right of way 2 necessary or the right of entry into all right of 3 way needed except for one parcel, and I'm going 4 to ask Dan Smith, who is head of right of way to 5 just -- we still need that right of entry into 6 one parcel. 7 DAN SMITH: That's correct. 8 DAVID FOSTER: That parcel is around 9 station -- I'm going to say it's between Station 10 380, 385, in that area on the east, east side of 11 the bay and the south side of Highway 90. We 12 anticipate having the right of entry to that 13 property somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 December 31st. 15 DAN SMITH: That's correct. 16 DAVID FOSTER: All right. And this is in 17 the area of where the alignment is being 18 flattened from a -- I don't know -- 6 degree 19 curve down to a, you know, a point -- I don't 20 know -- whatever the degree of curve that was 21 come up with in the design. But like I say, we 22 anticipate on having that right of entry 23 somewhere around December 31st, but I'm going to 24 recommend that we have that restricted area stay 25 a little bit longer than that, probably until 37 1 somewhere around March the 31st of '06. But in 2 the event that we get it earlier, we will turn 3 that -- you know, we will release it for 4 construction as fast as we get it. I just want 5 to let you know that for whoever is the winning 6 proposer. As far as any other right of ways, 7 unless somebody's got a question, then I'll just 8 move into the utility aspect. 9 As far as utilities go, as is stated in the 10 documents, avoidance is our primary -- is our 11 first choice. But MDOT will furnish a list of 12 all the utilities that are out there. There is a 13 procedure that is outlined in Section 6 of the 14 utilities on how they will be handled. MDOT 15 will, prior to the -- the award of the project or 16 beginning of construction, MDOT will have met 17 with the respective utility owners and gotten an 18 agreement with them. And Roy Tipton, if I say 19 this wrong, please help me, or you want to just 20 tell them yourself how this procedure will be 21 handled, if you would. 22 ROY TIPTON: This -- the utilities are 23 going to be handled a little bit differently than 24 you've ever experienced in Mississippi. What we 25 are in the process of doing right now is 38 1 arranging for memoranda of agreement with all the 2 known utilities on the job. The arrangement as 3 is currently set out is that MDOT is working on a 4 cooperative arrangement to handle a good deal of 5 the cost involved in moving the utilities, and 6 what we are going to ask the utilities to agree 7 to in exchange for that is to allow either 8 your -- you as the contractor or a utility 9 company that -- utilities sub that's approved by 10 the utility to move these at -- on very short 11 notice. In essence, we're not going to wait for 12 utility companies to move. We're going to have 13 the authority to move within a very short period 14 of time. You will have to coordinate with the 15 utilities after you get your design done, explain 16 what needs to be done, and they will have already 17 agreed in advance to allow you to move them. 18 Now, you will have to maintain parallel 19 service and minimize any disruption of service. 20 That will be a contractor responsibility, which 21 is something we've never put on the contractors 22 in Mississippi. But we feel like this is the 23 only way that this can be done in an efficient 24 manner under these time constraints. But all of 25 your arrangements, the financial arrangements and 39 1 everything, will have been handled in advance. 2 The only thing you'll have to essentially work 3 out with them is the change of location and the 4 timing of that change. The financial matters 5 have already been addressed. Any questions? 6 JERRY EAGIN: Jerry Eagin from the Granite 7 Archer Western team. So any and all costs of 8 utility relocation become reimbursable? 9 ROY TIPTON: Yes. They will be 10 reimbursable costs, except for the cost of 11 management and coordination. That is to be built 12 into your lump sum price. 13 JERRY EAGIN: Including the parallel 14 services? Maintenance of services? 15 ROY TIPTON: No. No, no. Your cost of 16 actually having someone go deal with these folks 17 is a cost to be included in your lump sum. The 18 cost of maintaining the parallel services, 19 setting them up, that is a cost that's 20 reimbursable. Am I saying that correctly? 21 TOM BRYANT: That's correct. That also 22 answers somebody's question that sent a question 23 to us, so good. 24 ROY TIPTON: We are attempting to take as 25 much of the questionable or the uncertainty, as 40 1 much of that as possible out of utility 2 relocation. 3 Any other questions? 4 DAVID FOSTER: Do you still have any 5 right-of-way questions? 6 TOM BRYANT: All right. John Pickering, 7 roadway, Section 2A. 8 JOHN PICKERING: I gave a copy of what I'm 9 about to say to the court reporter. I know she 10 doesn't understand our terminology. It will help 11 her to put it in words instead of just trying to 12 try to -- it helps her with the terminology, in 13 other words. 14 Anyway, I'm going to talk about the roadway 15 stuff, and I'm not going to talk about everything 16 that's in the RFP. I want to talk about some 17 things that needs, for clarification, maybe some 18 things that are not in there. The project limits 19 for this on Highway 90 is -- I'm calling it -- we 20 call it Front Street over here. The project lead 21 beginning right to the east of Front Street is 22 what we labeled as "Station 266 plus 75." The 23 project will end at Station 396 plus 50, which is 24 down here at the abutment -- existing abutment -- 25 for the Henderson Point Bridge. This project 41 1 will include a high-rise bridge, as everybody 2 knows, over the St. Louis Bay. It will have a 3 profile tie-down just east of Front Street. 4 Mitch has already talked about some elevations, 5 but the ending tie-down will be approximately 6 Station 389 plus naught naught, which is just 7 north of Bayview. This is Bayview Street right 8 here. And we anticipate -- we do have to 9 clear -- this is called Third Avenue right 10 here -- we do have to go over it vertically. 11 As far as frontage roads on this project, 12 there's an existing frontage road on the east 13 side or you may call it the "south side." But 14 there is existing frontage road on Bayview Street 15 to Third Avenue. It will need to be removed. 16 We're not replacing it. There is a local street 17 just north of 90 in here that's within our right 18 of way that ties into Third Avenue that we expect 19 you to overlay it. 20 If the existing local roads have curb and 21 gutters, you're to replace the curb and gutter or 22 maybe not replace them. It's up to you. If it 23 needs replacing, then we expect you to replace 24 the curb and gutter. If it's an open ditch 25 section, then you can put it back in an open 42 1 ditch section. You've just got to stay within 2 existing right of way. 3 The local road I was just talking about that 4 parallels Highway 90, the Roadway Design 5 Requirements for that local road can be found in 6 Table 14-25, which is for urban local roads on 7 page 14-27 of the Roadway Design Manual. The 8 design criteria for Third Avenue, which is the 9 vertical street right here, we'll use Table 10 14-2H, which is urban collector street on 14-25 11 of the Roadway Design Manual. Bayview Avenue, 12 Bayview Avenue which runs east and west, the 13 design criteria for that can be found on Table 14 14-2G, that's urban arterial. It's on page 15 14-2 -- excuse me, 14-23 of the Roadway Design 16 Manual. 17 As far as access connections to Highway 90, 18 the Front Street over and onto this side will not 19 be included in this project. Your project will 20 begin on the east side of Front Street. However, 21 Bayview Avenue is included in this, and you will 22 design that intersection for a WD-60 -- WD-62 23 structure. If you look in our design manual, it 24 says it will be designed for a WB-50, but we've 25 changed that to a WB-62. 43 1 There will be a median barrier, all those 2 from BOP to EOP. However, I've looked at it 3 myself and I think that the median barrier will 4 be required from about Station 270 plus naught 5 naught and 388 plus naught naught. Those are 6 approximate so that's up to you to decide. And 7 attenuator is anticipated to be at the beginning 8 and ending of this median barrier. 9 As far as from a Roadway Design standpoint, 10 the retaining walls are not anticipated on this 11 project other than what Mitch has already stated. 12 Just remember you have to stay within existing 13 right of way. 14 As far as traffic controls, you don't have 15 to worry too much about Highway 90. However, 16 what I mentioned earlier about -- about Third 17 Avenue and Bayview Street, those will need to 18 remain open at all times except when you just 19 have to absolutely close it down for hanging 20 beams, overlay, or things like that. And that's 21 all I had to cover. 22 Oh, I wanted to touch base on profile, I'm 23 sorry. We developed -- well, we developed a plan 24 and a profile. Now, the profile, with some 25 preliminary elevations that we received from 44 1 bridge division -- and I'm not sure if they match 2 exactly what's in the RFP or not, those 3 elevations that were discussed here earlier. But 4 it's a pretty good, they are pretty close to what 5 would be expected of you. I think our -- we had 6 a 0 percent grade on the flat part there with a 7 minimum 0.2 percent grade, which will help with 8 the drainage. So both of these are concepts, 9 though. Nothing is set in stone here, except we 10 have labeled it the new alignment will be 11 150 feet from existing center line of the old 12 bridge. And on this one, this project here, St. 13 Louis Bay, we stated that you must or you shall 14 be on the north side of existing, the old 15 existing 90 bridge. 16 I have -- I have some CDs. We will present 17 CDs on this project. I believe I'm getting my 18 projects mixed up. However, recently I think you 19 were sent CDs. Those, I don't think they had the 20 PDFs on them. I'm not sure. I know they didn't 21 have the profile. So what I've done is made more 22 copies here, and I would give one CD to each 23 contractor. I've got five over here, but I'm 24 just going to give one to each contractor here to 25 take with you today. It's got the DGNs and the 45 1 PDFs of both the profile, the profile and the 2 plan to use. 3 And that's all that I had to -- written down 4 to talk about. I know I haven't covered 5 everything, but like I said, a lot of it's in the 6 RFP. So if you guys have any questions, I will 7 be glad to answer them. 8 JOHN BRESTIN: I have just a general 9 question. 10 TOM BRYANT: Name. 11 JOHN BRESTIN: My name is John Brestin. 12 I'm with HNTB, Granite Archer Western team. 13 Because time is of the essence on this project, I 14 would like to request that at the end of this 15 meeting, if there are any written questions that 16 have submitted that have not yet been answered in 17 this meeting and they have answers to them, if 18 Mr. Bryant or other people on the MDOT team would 19 be willing to go ahead and answer those questions 20 at the end of this meeting if time allows. 21 DAVID FOSTER: If time allows -- David 22 Foster -- if time allows, we will. 23 JOHN BRESTIN: Okay. Thank you. 24 AL FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh Brothers. 25 Will traffic signals be required at Front Street 46 1 and Bayview? 2 JOHN PICKERING: No, sir. 3 AL FLETTRICH: They are there now, so we 4 won't have them. 5 JOHN PICKERING: No, sir. 6 TOM BRYANT: Let's add to that, I think 7 MDOT is -- has a separate contractor on board to 8 place signals at certain locations, so you may 9 have a little coordination work to do. But it 10 should be done by the time you guys get down 11 there. 12 KEITH JACOBSON: Keith Jacobson, again 13 with GC Constructors. You did say that the north 14 alignment is what you're set on, but that puts 15 us, from the standpoint of time is of essence on 16 everything in the construction phase, of 17 constructing in the debris field. Is it really 18 necessary that it be north rather than south? 19 JOHN PICKERING: Yes. We stated that. It 20 has to be north. 21 KEITH JACOBSON: Yes, sir. 22 TOM BRYANT: There's a gas line that goes 23 all the way across the south side. 24 KEITH JACOBSON: That answers the 25 question. 47 1 MITCH CARR: Can I make one comment, John? 2 It really is more appropriate for my discussion, 3 but I guess now is a good time as any. The 4 existing bridge out there, the bascule span was 5 the only part that remained. MDOT contracted and 6 had the bascule leaves and counterweights 7 removed, so they will not be out there when you 8 go out there. They will be out of the way. So 9 you won't have to worry about those. 10 TOM BRYANT: However, there may be some 11 hazardous material out there. 12 MITCH CARR: Just so you'll know, we had 13 to remove those bascule leaves and counterweights 14 so that they won't -- they will not be out there. 15 KEITH JACOBSON: All right. May I ask a 16 follow-up question to your lead? What hazardous 17 material do you know that exists out there or do 18 you suspect exists, and where do you know or 19 suspect it does exist? 20 TOM BRYANT: Do you want to handle that? 21 MITCH CARR: It doesn't matter. The only 22 hazardous material we know of is possibly some 23 lead paint issues on some of the old steel 24 portions. There might be some asbestos 25 drainpipes in the bridge decks. There might be 48 1 some lead in the bearings. I'm not real sure 2 exactly what-all you are going to encounter. 3 KEITH JACOBSON: Do you know of any 4 arsenic? 5 MITCH CARR: Not to my knowledge. 6 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin with HNTB, 7 Granite Archer Western team. You mentioned that 8 the leaves and the counterweight will be 9 removed -- 10 MITCH CARR: They are already removed. 11 JOHN BRESTIN: They are already. 12 MITCH CARR: They're not there. 13 JOHN BRESTIN: The machinery, has that 14 been removed as well? 15 MITCH CARR: No. 16 TOM BRYANT: Well, that immediately makes 17 me worry about what might be in the oil, so -- 18 from previous experience with transformers, so, 19 you know, it may have PCB's in it, so whatever. 20 So that's something to keep in mind. That's just 21 a hazard, hazardous guess, anyway, a guess. 22 KEITH JACOBSON: Would it be appropriate 23 to go back and ask a question regarding Section 24 2b, since it's a family environment? 25 TOM BRYANT: Yes. 49 1 KEITH JACOBSON: And I didn't write this 2 question, by the way. Keith Jacobson. She'll 3 get to know me by the end of the day. 4 On your open barrier, which you anticipate 5 on both projects, to our understanding there is 6 no crash-tested open barrier that satisfies what 7 you're trying to accomplish. So do you have very 8 specific in mind for this open barrier? For 9 which, again, then, you want three examples of. 10 So what specifically do you have in mind that 11 will meet the crash requirements of 50 miles per 12 hour? 13 MITCH CARR: There are some open-style 14 barriers on the FHWA web page that -- that meet 15 the TL4 criteria. That's not to say that's the 16 only thing that can be done. You might be able 17 to come up with some combination of -- of shorter 18 height barrier and some other things that would 19 meet the federal requirements that could give us 20 some aesthetics and be a 42-inch-high rail with 21 an open style. Just kind of leave it at that. 22 KEITH JACOBSON: Okay. FHWA -- there is a 23 lower barrier, so we can modify that with some 24 kind of a feature that gives you the 42-inch 25 height? 50 1 MITCH CARR: Keep in mind that whatever 2 you propose, not only does MDOT have to be happy 3 with it, but it does have to go through FHWA 4 approval. Does that pretty much cover it, Randy? 5 Jeff? 6 JEFF KNIGHT: Yes. 7 TOM BRYANT: Okay. Any other roadway 8 questions? Okay. With that, I guess we're down 9 to permits and environmental discussion, David 10 Foster. 11 DAVID FOSTER: Starting with 12 environmental, as is stated in the contract 13 documents, MDOT got a Categorical Exclusion for 14 this project. And as part of that Categorical 15 Exclusion, there were some commitments that were 16 made as referred to as the gold sheets. As you 17 can see, they are indeed gold. These commitments 18 that are made, they're pretty well spelled out in 19 the environmental document that's made a part of 20 what's been sent to you. I'm not sure. Does 21 anybody have any questions on any of those 22 commitments? 23 KEITH JACOBSON: Your commitment -- or 24 forget what the commitment is. The environmental 25 document says that dredging for access is 51 1 allowed, but the material needs to be disposed of 2 upland. My question is, does it have to be 3 exposed upland or can it be stockpiled to the 4 side if we are going to use it for a backfill 5 operation? As we dredge the access up to get 6 close to the shore, we lay it aside and then we 7 just cast it back in rather than carry it upland. 8 DAVID FOSTER: I'd have to check into 9 that, but I believe we're talking about an 10 environment permit issue that right now I'm not 11 prepared to answer as far as the casting back in, 12 so to speak. 13 KEITH JACOBSON: But as long as it goes up 14 on dry land? 15 DAVID FOSTER: As long as it leaves the 16 site and goes to an approved site, yeah. If you 17 do something else, then we've got to look at the 18 environmental issues. 19 TOM BRYANT: The thing I would like to add 20 there is if the contractor's proposing something 21 different, it would be up to him to handle the 22 permit requirements. But we'll work with you. 23 KEITH JACOBSON: You have the access 24 coverage? You have access -- we've already 25 covered that? 52 1 TOM BRYANT: I don't know. I don't know. 2 DAVID FOSTER: I'll have to double-check, 3 but the answer to the question is no because -- 4 I'm pretty sure that the answer to your question 5 is no because MDOT does not know what the 6 contractor is proposing as far as his channel. 7 So the commitment is any dredged channels will be 8 taken to an upland site for disposal. 9 While we're talking about the permits, I'd 10 like to say MDOT got a Categorical Exclusion. 11 Now, any permits, other than a 401, 404 Corps of 12 Engineers permit and the Coast Guard permit, are 13 the responsibility of the contractor or the 14 Proposer. 15 KEITH JACOBSON: I understand that. Tom, 16 would you please not listen to what I ask. You 17 say in your document the FHWA and MDOT have 18 committed to construction techniques that shall 19 provide reasonable protection for endangered 20 species. What are the techniques that you have 21 committed to, or what techniques have you 22 precluded us from implementing? 23 KEVIN DELVA: Check the blasting gold 24 sheet on that one, and there are special 25 requirements that were put in as far as how you 53 1 blast the piling out to keep the debris from 2 blowing all over the bay and so that you can make 3 certain that you pick it up and move it out. 4 KEITH JACOBSON: So it's narrowed down to 5 the blasting issue? 6 KEVIN DELVA: As far as I could find, yes. 7 KEITH JACOBSON: Okay. 8 TOM BRYANT: That was Kevin Delva, URS. 9 DAVID FOSTER: Okay. 10 AL FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh Brothers. 11 Concerning the debris removal, do the permits 12 cover the actual disposal of the debris? 13 MR. FOSTER: No. The disposal of debris 14 is the contractor's responsibility. 15 AL FLETRICH: And we need permits for 16 that? 17 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 18 AL FLETRICH: Another question which may 19 be on your gold sheet. Is there anything that, 20 any major issues with the Coast Guard that -- 21 MR. FOSTER: Mitch is more familiar with 22 the Coast Guard. 23 MITCH CARR: MDOT will be getting the -- I 24 say the standard. MDOT will be getting the 25 regular construction permit and it enables us to 54 1 build a bridge at this location that meets their 2 requirements. In Exhibit 2b, Section 4.1, 3 there's a requirement about the selected firm, if 4 you will, will submit 8-1/2-by-11 drawings that 5 we will turn around and give to the Coast Guard 6 to let them know what's being proposed at that 7 location. 8 The other permits that you need to get from 9 the Coast Guard for your construction for your 10 operation and navigation in the channel are any 11 closure operations you're going to do to the 12 channel. All that is at the responsibility of 13 the contractor. 14 LEE SIMS: Lee Sims, L and A Contractors, 15 Granite Archer Western. I know the Corps dredges 16 through that area to maintain the channel. If 17 there is a disposal site that they dredge into, 18 will that be acceptable? Do you know of a site? 19 MR. FOSTER: You would have to talk with 20 the Corps on as far as the acceptability of it. 21 Any others? 22 MR. BRYANT: Okay. Thanks, David. 23 Our next up is Kevin Delva, URS. 24 MR. DELVA: I'm Kevin Delva, and I'll let 25 you know that sometimes I design footings and 55 1 sometimes I design pile caps. So by the time to 2 the end of this project, I'll know all of your 3 terms. 4 A couple of things to note as far as turning 5 in your plan sets, the first one is that John 6 has -- Pickering -- has prepared a very good 7 design manual so that the roadway people have a 8 really good example and a full description of 9 what he expects to see in the plan sets. There's 10 a CAD manual that tells you the layering systems 11 and the levels that need to be done and a few of 12 the other requirements for CADs. 13 On -- we have submitted or given you a set 14 of plans. They're the Pascagoula plans over the 15 East River that contain both roadways, bridge, 16 intersection, striping, all the plan sets that I 17 think will give you a very good example of what 18 we are looking for as far as things that we want 19 to see and something other than in our manual. 20 And particularly in the bridge section, those 21 example plans are to be used as far as making the 22 submittals and how you should prepare your sheets 23 so that MDOT is familiar with where you are 24 putting your information on, and it looks like 25 what we're used to seeing. 56 1 Getting down to the review times -- and I 2 know there's going to be many questions. There 3 has already been one. The 21 days for the 4 preliminary design and the final design will be 5 held. I need time to do quality assurance on 6 your designs. We need time to take and review 7 the plans to make certain they conform to the 8 contract. So the 21 days will be held, 9 particularly on the preliminary design. That 10 will be the largest one. We will endeavor, 11 however, to make the design review faster, and in 12 that condition, the better the plan sets are, the 13 faster that we can review them so keep that in 14 mind, please. 15 To make things move faster and to help you 16 out, we are making ourselves available, if the 17 contractor decides to do this, for a biweekly 18 design coordination meeting so that we can stay 19 in step with what you're doing as far as the 20 designs and we can answer questions and work with 21 you during that time period so that we know 22 what's going on. You can bounce ideas off to 23 know that -- what we're going to accept. Helps 24 you out and it's been worked in the past and 25 we've used it many times. 57 1 As far as submittals, all submittals on the 2 project must be addressed to Harry Lee James, and 3 they are to be delivered to the Document Control 4 Center located at MDOT's headquarters. And I'm 5 bringing this up because on past projects, we've 6 had people send couriers out, and where these 7 couriers go, I don't know, but we never got the 8 submittals. And since we're looking at time as 9 critical, that's making certain that the 10 submittal is delivered to Document Control so 11 that we can start the time clock because if you 12 mail it out on some other date, the time clock 13 starts, in our point of view, from the date that 14 we receive it. So make certain that you know 15 where the submittal is going and how it's going 16 to get there. 17 With the selected team, we can look at some 18 other things that might make the design review 19 faster, and one of those ideas that I have is if 20 the submittals can be made, in addition to the 21 hard copy, in tif format, we can get them out to 22 the reviewers a little bit faster. I know that 23 time is important to you, and we will work as 24 hard as we can to make review times as short as 25 possible. 58 1 With that are there any questions as far as 2 the design reviews? 3 MR. BRYANT: Let me add to what Kevin is 4 saying. The design coordination meetings will be 5 held in the designers' offices, not in ours. We 6 will come to you. So I think that will help you 7 a little bit so you won't have the lost time 8 traveling to where we're at and all the other 9 paraphernalia and lose a whole day. So we don't 10 want to do that. We'll come to your office and 11 have the meeting in your office. That should 12 help. 13 And then the second thing, we're going to 14 put in the contract an optional 60 percent plan 15 review, strictly your call. All of us 16 traditionally are used to the four-step process. 17 We left it out deliberately on this project, but 18 it's at your risk, but if you want us to review 19 it at 60, we'll be glad to do it. 20 Okay. Any questions on the review process? 21 Yeah, we kept records on Kevin's last Design 22 Build job, and Kevin -- this is Kevin's sixth 23 Design Build job, by the way -- and we did miss 24 the 21 days on like two or three of them, but a 25 lot of times, it had to do with the quality of 59 1 the product, like Kevin said, that came to us. 2 If it's high quality, it turns around a lot 3 quicker. And also we have -- Kevin's got some 4 particular things. You know, we get something 5 that we receive it at 5:00 on a Friday, and then, 6 you know, we've already lost two days right off 7 the bat. You know, so there are things that you 8 can do to make our job easier, too, so just don't 9 save up a bunch of these submittals and do it all 10 at once. Give it to us a piece at a time. 11 Yes, ma'am. 12 RACHEL LUNSFORD: Rachel Lunsford, ACP. 13 Part of the proposal package, are you going to 14 want microstation files? Are you going to want 15 to try submittals without it, or is it just pdf 16 sheets or? 17 KEVIN DELVA: Not for the proposal. 18 Any other questions? 19 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin, HNTB, Granite 20 Archer Western. When we're submitting drawings, 21 you mentioned submitting in a tif format to 22 expedite the process. Would a pdf format be 23 acceptable as well? 24 MR. DELVA: I think so. 25 Any other questions? Thank you. 60 1 MR. BRYANT: Okay. Thanks, Kevin. 2 Richard Sheffield will now talk about the 3 QCQA. 4 MR. SHEFFIELD: Go figure. They let the 5 materials guy go last. No, I did -- before I get 6 into QCQA, Mitch did mention when he was going 7 over to the exhibit to tell you about it, there 8 is part of the addendum on the concrete was we're 9 going to follow Section 804, the Standard Specs 10 and Section 701 of the Standard Specs, and those 11 of you that are not familiar with our Standard 12 Specs, basically what he's saying is we've got 13 some cement issues. All of you know how 14 difficult it is to find cement right now, and any 15 of those structure elements, the foundation and 16 the substratum, that's going to be exposed to 17 seawater, we've got to make consideration for 18 that with either the type 2 cement or the type 1 19 with the other things that we allow in our specs. 20 I just want to make sure that everybody 21 understood that right up front. 22 QCQA, again, the biggest part of these 23 projects is going to be concrete and steel, 24 obviously, for the bridge construction. We 25 intend to utilize our 804 specifications, which 61 1 are QCQA for concrete. As John mentioned 2 earlier, there's some asphalt on these jobs, and 3 we want to use our 401 specifications, which are 4 QCQA for asphalt. And then for whatever 5 earthwork is involved with this, we're really not 6 a QCQA item. We do expect the contractor to look 7 at these densities and quality of the materials, 8 but that will be handled on like a job control 9 basis from our end, not necessarily the 10 contractor's. 11 All of you have a construction quality 12 control manager. The people that are going to be 13 doing the field testing obviously have got to be 14 certified in concrete and asphalt. Any testing 15 laboratories that are going to be used to do your 16 testing have to be AASHTO accredited for the test 17 that you're going to be performing. That was in 18 the RFQ. Mixed designs, concrete for asphalt, 19 level 3 technician for concrete mix designs, a 20 certified mix design technician for asphalt. 21 The vast majority of the other material 22 items that go into this product, in this project, 23 will be handled by certification. I think you 24 were all provided a copy of the Materials 25 Division Inspection Testing and Certification 62 1 manual on your CDs, and it goes into great detail 2 of what's expected on the miscellaneous items. 3 Now, I just said a lot in about two minutes. 4 I'm sure there are questions concerning QCQA. 5 MIKE PEPPER: Mike Pepper with MMC and 6 Gulf Concrete. You said all testing has to be 7 done by an AASHTO accredited laboratory, mix 8 design metals and all that. Mix design testing, 9 can that follow standard procedures or does it 10 have to be done by -- 11 MR. SHEFFIELD: On mixed design? That's 12 just standard procedure as long as it's submitted 13 by the certified level 3 technician. I'm talking 14 about QC testing. 15 MIKE PEPPER: I wanted to make sure. 16 MR. BRYANT: Thank you. We have the 17 capability here today of pulling any of the 18 contract documents up on the computer. Can we 19 have some assistance here, Leland or whoever is 20 going to do it? And if you have a particular 21 question, we can call it up and put it on the 22 screen with a particular section. I am not going 23 to go down through the document like was done by 24 Mitch and John Pickering. So at this point in 25 time, I've already stated earlier today that 63 1 there will be a complete revision to all the 2 documents that will come out soon. And in fact, 3 my office administrator is down in the office 4 making those now. 5 The Biloxi-Ocean Springs proposal is the 6 cleaner of the two documents, so if you have any 7 questions about the Bay St. Louis, you could just 8 go online and look at the St. Louis Bay, and then 9 you could go online and check the Biloxi-Ocean 10 Springs RFP and that will show you the 11 corrections to this one. So that should help you 12 out a lot. But the actual document will be 13 issued as soon as we can get it done. 14 And with that, I'll open it up to questions 15 on the RFP or the agreement. In fact, even that 16 term has been changed. It's called "contract" 17 for Biloxi-Ocean Springs. Any questions? 18 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin, HNTB, Granite 19 Archer Western team. On the Biloxi proposal, 20 there is a statement that I'm expecting to be 21 included in the Bay St. Louis proposal. It 22 reads, "MDOT may disqualify a proposer if any of 23 its major participants belong to more than one 24 proposer's organizations." We know that OEA has 25 been taken out of the teams as well as, of 64 1 course, URS could not be on the team. The 2 question I have is we submitted an SOQ clearly 3 stating the team members that are part of our 4 overall team. If that SOQ has been accepted as 5 it has been and we've been shortlisted, can we 6 assume, then, that all of those teams are 7 acceptable to MDOT and URS going forward? 8 MR. BRYANT: I'm going to need help on 9 this one, David. 10 MR. FOSTER: Well, like you say, the MDOT 11 is not aware of any conflict, but to me -- and 12 I'm not a -- my $5 Wal-Mart degree did not carry 13 me far. But the consultants, the contracting, 14 the firms that you're in teams with should know 15 whether or not they are in conflict of 16 themselves -- you know, with themselves. In 17 other words, are they under contract with MDOT 18 doing work that is related to this project. Now, 19 I'm sure that there are several firms in this 20 room that MDOT is under contract with for other 21 projects, and that is -- should not be a 22 conflict. 23 ROY TIPTON: I'm Roy Tipton with the 24 Attorney General's office. On the conflict of 25 interest, the one that has already been 65 1 announced, OEA, is the only one that we're aware 2 of at this point in time. But we reserve that 3 right should we discover any in the future. But 4 essentially, we -- your conflict of interest, the 5 ones that we are concerned with are the ones 6 where someone would be providing information to 7 one team player that the other teams would not 8 have access to. It's primarily our concern that 9 this be a level playing field for everyone 10 concerned. We're not aware of any other at this 11 point in time, if that answers your question. 12 JOHN BRESTIN: Okay. To follow up -- 13 ROY TIPTON: Do you have a specific one in 14 mind? 15 JOHN BRESTIN: Well, to follow on with 16 that, I understand that organizations that are 17 working directly for MDOT are exempt, but I'm 18 talking about organizations that may be on more 19 than one team as this statement seems to imply. 20 MR. BRYANT: Roy, can I stick my two 21 cents' worth in? 22 MR. TIPTON: Sure. 23 MR. BRYANT: If it's a DBE firm, yes, they 24 can work on any of the three teams. Doesn't make 25 a bit of difference for DBE. Okay? Does that 66 1 clarify it enough? 2 JOHN BRESTIN: Well, I can just state the 3 firms -- in my view, they are minor participants, 4 but I just wanted to clarify that. It's Burns 5 Cooley Dennis and Brown and Mitchell, and we're 6 aware that they are on more than one team and we 7 just wanted to clarify that would not be a 8 problem. 9 MR. FOSTER: That's not a problem. 10 MR. JAMES: No. Harry Lee James. No, I 11 do not see that as a problem. 12 MR. BRYANT: Sorry. 13 MR. TIPTON: Just so we clear up the 14 issue, has anyone got any doubts at all? We'll 15 answer it right now if you do. Basically, it's 16 minor participants, it's not a problem. 17 TAG GOODWIN: Could somebody repeat those 18 firms again? 19 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin, HNTB, Granite 20 Archer Western. Burns Cooley Dennis and Brown 21 Mitchell. 22 MR. BRYANT: They'll be contacting you 23 right after the meeting. 24 MITCH CARR: What was your name? 25 TAG GOODWIN: Tag Goodwin, Parsons. 67 1 MR. BRYANT: Other questions? 2 AL FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh Brothers. 3 Are there any working hour restrictions? 4 MR. BRYANT: The contractor is obligated 5 to follow state law and local ordinances, so it's 6 up to you to check that out. 7 KEITH JACOBSON: The RFP -- Keith 8 Jacobson. The RFP requires that we turn in a 9 Volume 3. Will the contractors that are 10 qualified on both turn in a Volume 3? Biloxi 11 also requires the same. Are you going to have 12 two Volume 3's turned in? 13 MR. BRYANT: Yes. 14 KEITH JACOBSON: With two different 15 potential electives? 16 MR. BRYANT: Two Volume 3's will be turned 17 in, and it's kind of a joke to say "volume." 18 It's an envelope. 19 KEITH JACOBSON: I realize that. 20 MR. BRYANT: Okay. 21 KEITH JACOBSON: You would like the same 22 declaration in each? 23 MR. BRYANT: Yes. We're treating this as 24 separate projects. 25 ROY TIPTON: The first one opened will 68 1 control. 2 MR. BRYANT: Here's another question right 3 here. 4 RICKY LEE: Can a question or questions of 5 confidential nature be asked and answered in 6 confidence by the department? 7 MR. BRYANT: Roy? 8 MR. TIPTON: I know of nothing that you 9 can ask of a confidential nature to a state 10 agency. You can provide materials in a 11 confidential form and we can hold those in 12 confidence, but everything that you ask will have 13 to be -- I can't imagine anything unless it 14 related to a personnel matter. 15 AL FLETTRICH: Well, I was talking about 16 before the proposals are opened. 17 ROY TIPTON: No, sir. No, sir. If you 18 ask it and we answer it, it will have to be 19 public. 20 MR. BRYANT: State your name. 21 AL FLETTRICH: Al Flettrich, Boh Brothers. 22 There was a mention of presentation. Will this 23 be just an interview, questions about the 24 proposal or a formal presentation? 25 MR. BRYANT: I don't think we have 69 1 officially decided yet whether we're even going 2 to have a presentation. A lot of it depends on 3 the quality of what we get. And if we have 4 questions about what we get, well, then we will 5 have presentations required for all parties, all 6 three firms. 7 AL FLETTRICH: Another question. 8 Considering the tight schedule and the damages 9 that have been discussed, will additional time be 10 granted for work that is suspended, say, for 11 hurricanes or right of ways not being purchased 12 or? 13 MR. BRYANT: There are very clear reasons 14 in the contract for time extensions, so you 15 should simply look at it. It's been very clear 16 there are six reasons for a change order, and so 17 you'll look at those very carefully. And if it 18 is a change order that affects the critical path 19 on the schedule, yes, you will get a time 20 extension. 21 KEITH JACOBSON: Keith Jacobson again. 22 Regarding time extensions, you have a 60-day 23 period in which to award the contract, and you 24 state there will be an award date of December 25 21st. If you fail to award on December 21st, 70 1 will all the construction and completion 2 milestones extend accordingly? 3 MR. BRYANT: No. 4 MR. JAMES: Harry Lee James. 5 KEITH JACOBSON: Could I get a longer 6 answer? 7 MR. JAMES: I can't just nod my head? The 8 reason for the 21st, our commission meets twice a 9 month, typically the second and fourth Tuesdays. 10 In this case, it is meeting the second Tuesday 11 and the Wednesday following the third Tuesday to 12 give us one more day to look at this. It's -- we 13 do not anticipate needing any extensions for 14 awarding, delaying the award for 60 days. It's 15 going to be depending upon the successful 16 contractor getting back the contractual documents 17 back to us as to when that, you know, milestone 18 begins, when that point in time is. I will make 19 the statement that provided that it is a 20 reasonable time for turnaround of documents to 21 get started, that we could adjust time 22 accordingly from that point. But as far as 23 anything beyond that, I would say no. And the 24 reason, I would think, you know, no more than ten 25 days. 71 1 MR. BRYANT: Yes? 2 TOM ELMORE: Tom Elmore, Eutaw 3 Construction with Granite Archer Western. In 4 regards to the schedule, it has quite a few 5 points on the -- when you decide who's going to 6 get the project, some 30. Are you going to grade 7 that -- if you decide if you can show a schedule 8 to finish 30 days ahead of time, do you get the 9 30 points and 29 if it's 29 days, or if you show 10 you get the schedule on time? 11 MR. BRYANT: Kevin Delva. 12 MR. DELVA: That question has already been 13 asked once. And we put together an answer that 14 basically says it is technically possible to get 15 the 30 points -- and I want to read this because 16 it was -- the question that was written was: 17 "Can a proposer achieve the maximum score of 30 18 points under the schedule items without proposing 19 completion dates of the milestones that are 20 earlier than those listed in the RFP." And our 21 response to that is technically yes. "The 22 earliest schedule that demonstrates" -- "that is 23 demonstrated by a clear explanation of how the 24 schedule will achieve will receive the highest 25 points." 72 1 MR. BRYANT: Next question? Yes, sir. 2 JERRY EAGIN: Jerry Eagin, Granite Archer 3 Western. Given the nature of the project as well 4 as the other one, our engineers are going to be 5 under a lot of pressure to get their documents 6 ready by the submitting date. And the way we 7 understand the RFP, you're also expecting the 8 price document as well on that date. Has there 9 been any consideration or can we ask for the 10 consideration of extending the time for turning 11 in the price not at the same day as the technical 12 documents? I don't think that's been 13 precedented, and certainly in order to work with 14 local vendors and suppliers and precast guys, 15 it's -- it would make a big difference. 16 MR. TIPTON: Give us just a minute. 17 Now, you-all see how state government works. 18 MR. JAMES: Harry Lee James. Thanks for 19 that question. That gives us something we hadn't 20 really thought of. But with you submitting your 21 ten copies of proposals on December 9th, which is 22 a Friday, I believe, and with us not opening the 23 prices until December 20th, which I believe is a 24 Tuesday, that will allow us to receive the prices 25 by 10:00 that morning just like a normal bid 73 1 opening, and then from that, we will, you know, 2 make sure that the all the information is 3 correct, so that will give you an extra week and 4 a couple of days in there to do that. So we will 5 put that, you know, commit that to writing. But 6 right now it will be that Tuesday. It will be in 7 the central office of the MDOT administration 8 building in the auditorium on Sunday just like we 9 do it normally. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where will that 11 submission be? 12 MR. JAMES: We'll clarify that's where 13 those have to be. 14 MR. TIPTON: Doesn't that also apply to 15 the Volume 3? 16 MR. JAMES: Volume 3, yes, I think we 17 could allow that to occur to that as well 18 because -- just don't get your envelopes mixed. 19 MR. TIPTON: Roy Tipton, attorney 20 general's office. Now, understand that 21 submission of the proposal of the proposed -- the 22 proposal on the required time is required. 23 Submission of these Volume 2 and Volume 3 are 24 required at the same time. If you miss any time 25 deadline, you'll be nonresponsive. 74 1 MR. BRYANT: So in case somebody didn't 2 hear, the new date for the price and Volume 3 is 3 10 a.m., December 20th? 4 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. 5 TOM BRYANT: David Foster. 6 MR. FOSTER: I want to clarify something, 7 and Mitch is fixing to read it to you. 8 MITCH CARR: You know earlier I read you a 9 paragraph that under the Exhibit 2b, Section 10 1.4.3, the Bridge Aesthetics, that we were adding 11 about the alternate concepts for the railing. 12 That also -- and I said that in the paragraph -- 13 it includes estimated costs for that railing. 14 You need to turn that in with these exhibits, the 15 estimated cost just for the railing. Not for the 16 whole project but just for the railing. We need 17 to see that with the exhibits, per linear foot. 18 KEITH JACOBSON: Is that part of Volume 1, 19 then? 20 MITCH CARR: Yes. It will be part of 21 Volume 1. 22 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin. Would that 23 be you would state your base bid and then two 24 alternates for the railings? 25 MITCH CARR: The three -- I'm sorry, yeah, 75 1 that would be correct. Is that the way you want 2 to see it? The base bid and then the two 3 alternates with the two railings? 4 MR. BRYANT: The answer is yes. 5 Okay. Let's give a little extra time over 6 here. Tom? 7 MR. ELMORE: Tom Elmore, Granite Archer 8 Western. Has funding been established for both 9 projects? And if not, which one has priority? 10 MR. JAMES: Harry Lee James. I would be a 11 fool to sit up here and say which one we're going 12 to move forward if we have to drop one. So we 13 intend to move both of them forward, or 14 consequently both of them will be delayed. We do 15 have some decisions to make in the coming months 16 or month about that. That's why our friends from 17 federal highway are in the back. 18 MR. ELMORE: Didn't mean to put you on the 19 spot. 20 MR. BRYANT: Tom Bryant. Again on this 21 same subject. That's why your PPS, your project 22 payment schedule, is important to us because we 23 want to have the money there to pay you whenever 24 you are going to work. So we ask you for 25 actually two different curves in there, a maximum 76 1 acceleration of your schedule that you would ever 2 expect to make, and then one that's your target, 3 and that will give us an idea of how much money 4 we have to have every month on board to pay you 5 guys. 6 KEITH JACOBSON: All right. I appreciate 7 that, and that's extremely good question and 8 every contractor is concerned about, a posted 9 budget and whether or not you are in a position 10 to award these contracts when they exceed your 11 budget, and whether or not your budget takes into 12 account the things that have caused price 13 escalation throughout the Gulf Coast, which we 14 believe your budget is too low. And if you can't 15 award, then why are we going through the extra 16 steps? 17 MR. JAMES: Harry Lee James. It is our 18 full intent to award these projects. 19 KEITH JACOBSON: Take up a collection. 20 MR. JAMES: There's a tip jar outside when 21 you leave. 22 MR. BRYANT: Next question. 23 James Codell just made a good suggestion. 24 We are paying for the proposals. There is a 25 stipend for $100,000 in there, and the reason 77 1 it's so low is because it's a four-week period, 2 and so -- so anyway, that is probably a token 3 stipend, but it is in there for the firms that 4 submit responsive proposals. 5 Other questions? We've got one back here. 6 Yes, sir. 7 TAG GOODWIN: Tag Goodwin, Parsons. MDOT 8 required a very extensive statement of 9 qualification from the proposers, and my question 10 is: Will that content that's already been 11 included in the statement of qualifications also 12 be included in the evaluations of the proposals? 13 MR. BRYANT: Well, let me make a statement 14 first, and then while I'm doing that, somebody 15 over there can help me out. There was a change 16 in the project that we're requiring a quality 17 assurance -- help me out here, Mitch. We 18 required -- 19 MR. SHEFFIELD: We've had a design QC 20 person and a construction QC person. 21 MR. BRYANT: Which has changed from the 22 original document. 23 MR. SHEFFIELD: Yes. 24 MR. BRYANT: So I said in the answer to 25 one of the questions -- I forgot how I worded it, 78 1 but it was the fact that we would not count that 2 in your 50 pages. So with that lead-in, a little 3 help over there would be appreciated. Anybody? 4 Roy? Wait a minute. Go ahead. 5 MR. TIPTON: I'm Roy Tipton with the 6 attorney general's office. If I understood your 7 question, your question is does the ranking in 8 the qualifications affect the decision on the 9 proposal. Is that your question? 10 TAG GOODWIN: Correct. 11 MR. TIPTON: Harry, I'm going to answer 12 this no. 13 MR. BRYANT: Good. 14 MR. TIPTON: The basic -- basically, what 15 we did is provided a floor. We believe everyone 16 in the room is capable of building the bridge, 17 and so everyone is now competing on design and 18 price. 19 KEITH JACOBSON: I do want to follow up on 20 that question, and that's the right answer to the 21 question that was asked. But in your RFP, you 22 are asking for information that pertains to key 23 people in management, management organization, 24 management philosophy, and in the SOQ, we 25 answered all that for the contract, providing 79 1 organizational charts, key individuals, and 2 résumés. So the real issue, in our mind, is are 3 you reviewing the RFP response with the SOQ open 4 to that information, or do we have to regurgitate 5 the critical information so that the new 6 reviewers understand the strength of the 7 organizational structure, the management 8 philosophy, and the way in which we do business 9 that graded us as equal or qualifies us, and 10 that's -- how do we do that? 11 MR. TIPTON: The SOQ will be available to 12 the reviewers. We don't want you to have to 13 regurgitate additional information, but the 14 rankings will not be used. Is that -- is that 15 satisfactory? I think that will probably be the 16 easiest on everyone concerned. The SOQs have 17 been locked up. They will be made available to 18 the reviewing team. 19 MR. BRYANT: Yes, sir. 20 AL FLETTRICH: I have a line of questions 21 I missed on my list from before. Will the 22 department provide a hydrographic survey to 23 ensure what is identified to be cleared has been 24 cleared? 25 MR. BRYANT: I think the answer is no, but 80 1 Mitch? 2 MITCH CARR: No. 3 AL FLETRICH: And the other minor question 4 is on the Ocean Springs bridge, there was a bike 5 pedestrian lane. That is not the case on the Bay 6 St. Louis bridge? 7 MR. BRYANT: That's correct. There is no 8 shared path on the St. Louis Bay bridge. 9 Other questions? Okay. We have -- we have 10 about ten minutes that we can go ahead and start, 11 if you would like, David. Is that all right to 12 start answering your questions? Kevin, we're 13 ready for answering those questions. And just 14 keep in mind that these questions, this is our 15 draft of the answers and they could be subject to 16 editorial rights of MDOT. So go ahead. David. 17 MR. FOSTER: Okay. The first question: 18 "The RFP as written does not clearly define the 19 completion of the work as including the complete 20 removal of the existing structure from the bay. 21 Because of critical Milestone No. 1, it is 22 imperative that all available construction 23 resources are dedicated to completing the 24 Milestone. Therefore, it is requested that the 25 contract completion for the removals be extended 81 1 to six months beyond the current milestone to 2 completion date. This extended completion date 3 would not affect the Milestone 2 4 incentive/disincentive date." 5 Yes, MDOT would consider it, but not six 6 months. I mean, we will look and come up with a 7 date. So yes, we would -- we will look into that 8 favorably. 9 Number 2, another question regarding 10 incentive/disincentive. "Will the Commission 11 consider reducing the disincentive amount to the 12 value of the incentive or to a multiple of the 13 incentive. Construction contracting is as much 14 about risk exposure as it is about experience and 15 capacity. Unlimited disincentives are truly 16 disincentives and high risk exposure which must 17 be accounted for in margin assetment." 18 No Commission will not consider reducing the 19 disincentive amount, especially for Phase 1. 20 Now, where we are looking at changing the 21 incentive/disincentive is on Milestone 2. 22 Milestone 1 I'm pretty sure is $100,000 per 23 calendar day, and it's currently that in 24 Milestone 2. We're looking at reducing both the 25 incentive and the disincentive for Milestone 2 82 1 down to $50,000 per calendar day. 2 Next question dealt with the budget. I 3 believe it's already been asked and answered. 4 This one deals with categorical exclusion. "The 5 Categorical Exclusion determination contained in 6 Exhibit 17 states in paragraph 3 at the top of 7 page 5, "FHWA and MDOT have committed to 8 construction techniques that provide reasonable 9 protections for the endangered species." 10 MR. BRYANT: That's been answered. 11 Already been answered. 12 MR. FOSTER: Okay. Question on pending 13 refined analysis. "In second paragraph of 14 Section 2.2, vertical alignment, on page 4, page 15 4 of 13 of Exhibit 2a, it refers to a refined 16 analysis." 17 We've already talked about this one. This 18 one deals with the low cord elevation, and Mitch 19 has talked about that one. 20 MR. DELVA: This is when you were talking 21 about January? 22 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. You remember when 23 Mitch answered the question, he said that first 24 week, second week of January, they would know 25 what the elevation would become. That's what 83 1 that question is pertaining to. 2 I'm fixing to have to pick it back up. 3 JOHN BRESTIN: Tom, just so we're not in a 4 hurry, I think the clock is off by an hour. 5 MR. BRYANT: Good for you. I was watching 6 the clock. Good for you. Thanks for waking me 7 up. 8 KEITH JACOBSON: That's the one we're 9 going to open the bids by. 10 MR. FOSTER: Next question concerns 11 release for construction documents. "In 12 paragraph 3, release for construction documents 13 on page 10 of 14 of Attachment A, it states -- of 14 the Agreement, it states that the contractor 15 shall have a professional engineer registered in 16 the state of Mississippi stamp and sign each 17 sheet of the plans. Is it expected that this 18 engineer be a direct employee of the contractor 19 or one of the contractor's consultants as allowed 20 in other sections?" 21 The engineer may be a direct employee of the 22 contractor or his consultant. I mean it can be 23 either. 24 Question regarding bridge storm water. "Is 25 there any requirement to collect any portion of 84 1 the bridge storm water and transfer to land, or 2 can it be drained into the bay through scuppers?" 3 To me it can be drained in the bay through 4 scuppers. Mitch? 5 MITCH CARR: Yeah, that's correct. 6 MR. BRYANT: Let's clarify that it doesn't 7 even have to be a scupper. 8 MR. FOSTER: He doesn't have to transfer 9 the bridge water onto land. 10 MR. BRYANT: Right. 11 MR. FOSTER: Question about the design 12 quality control manager. "Section 5, Quality 13 Control/Quality Assurance of Attachment A 14 Agreement, has the requirement for a Design 15 Quality Control Manager, which was not specified 16 in the RFQ. Are we required to provide an 17 amended organizational chart and additional 18 résumé in our response to this RFP? Is it 19 required that this individual possess his or her 20 state of Mississippi professional engineer 21 registration prior to contract award?" 22 The answer to that is yes, and this change 23 will not count in the 50-page limit that is in 24 the RFP or is on the RFP. 25 Question concerning utilities. "Attachment 85 1 A, Section 6, Agreement addresses a memorandum of 2 agreement with each utility or affected utility. 3 Does the commission have a current list of 4 affected utility owners to share with Proposers? 5 Will the Commission provide copies of each 6 memorandum as soon as it is available rather than 7 waiting until the Notice to Proceed?" 8 We will provide a list of the utilities, of 9 the known utilities within the right of way. 10 Now, as far as a list of the affected utilities, 11 MDOT does not know which utilities will be 12 affected, because it is dependent upon design. 13 Now, Roy, this question right here, "will 14 the commission provide copies of each memorandum 15 as soon as it is available?" And Roy said yes. 16 JEFF KNIGHT: Jeff Knight with Williford 17 Gearhart & Knight. David, do y'all have the 18 location of the existing utilities within the 19 right of way? 20 DAVID FOSTER: Ricky, I believe y'all have 21 submitted station information of the known 22 utilities? 23 RICKY LEE: Yeah, we don't have the -- I 24 don't think we have the horizontal and vertical 25 utilities. We know where it is by station 86 1 number. 2 MR. FOSTER: Did you hear that one, Jeff? 3 JEFF KNIGHT: Yeah. 4 MR. FOSTER: Next question. "Section VI, 5 Attachment A in paragraphs A and B, it discusses 6 the responsibilities of the Commission and 7 contractor, and essentially -- it essentially 8 states that the contractor will be responsible 9 for coordinating the relocation of and doing the 10 work of the relocating utilities, and that he 11 will be reimbursed for his direct costs." 12 I believe Roy has already answered that one. 13 Is there -- has that question been cleared up in 14 everyone's mind? 15 TOM McCARTHY: Tom McCartney with Traylor 16 Brothers. Paragraph C -- 17 MR. FOSTER: "Paragraph C seems to 18 contradict that in saying that no additional 19 compensation will be allowed for relocation costs 20 sustained due to interferences from utilities or 21 the operation of relocating utilities. Please 22 clarify the intent of these paragraphs." 23 MR. TIPTON: All right. The intent is 24 that we've given you the names of all the 25 utilities out there, and we have provided you 87 1 with all the tools to relocate them. As far as 2 if you have difficulty in your coordination 3 process, there will be no extension. Is that 4 clear enough? We're going to pay for it, but 5 it's up to you to get them coordinated and move. 6 MR. BRYANT: Let me further comment. Tom 7 Bryant. Kevin, I think, has some wording there 8 already prepared that would change the wording in 9 the document that you're looking at. So that 10 will clarify when he issues that. You've got it 11 right there, don't you, David? 12 MR. FOSTER: Well, I'm having trouble 13 following it. That's what threw me off, and I'd 14 really rather not say until I -- 15 TOM McCARTHY: This is Tom McCartney with 16 GC -- Traylor Brothers. My concern is this seems 17 open-ended, that if the utilities go out there 18 and take forever to do whatever they want to do 19 and you put it on us, that's a risk I don't see 20 how we can accept. You can't control what they 21 do at all times. 22 MR. BRYANT: Let me clarify. Roy, I 23 thought, made it pretty clear that either you can 24 hire a contractor acceptable to the utility 25 company, or you will use their utility company 88 1 and you'll get cranking on it as soon as your 2 schedule allows. And you'll get paid for it. 3 MR. TIPTON: The MOAs are designed to 4 commit the utility company to move on your time 5 schedule, either with their own forces or allow 6 you to hire a contractor acceptable to them. And 7 you'll have to coordinate that. 8 TOM McCARTHY: I guess from experience, 9 they just want to take all day or go, you know, 10 whatever they want to do, and that . . . 11 MR. TIPTON: We understand that. We 12 understand the problems associated with it. 13 MR. BRYANT: So based on that, maybe you 14 ought to convince the utility company to use the 15 firm that you select, and then you eliminate the 16 problem you've got to stop. 17 RICKY LEE: He's worrying about 18 locating -- he may not know about Mississippi 19 One-Call that we have that will come and locate 20 it. So if you have a problem with the utility 21 owner, that's not really a problem. 22 MR. TIPTON: And just so the entire 23 group knows -- this is Roy Tipton again -- as we 24 speak, the utility coordinators for MDOT are 25 already talking to all the known utilities and 89 1 putting them on notice that this is coming. They 2 are all aware of it, and memorandums -- the 3 memorandums are already in the hands of the 4 utility companies, and we are trying to get all 5 these details worked out right now. We expect 6 cooperation from the utilities. 7 MR. BRYANT: Okay, David? 8 MR. FOSTER: The next question regards 9 certifying proposed schedule. "On page 7 of 15 10 of the Request for Proposals in the final 11 paragraph of Section 4, project scope, it states 12 that the proposer will be required to certify 13 their proposed schedule." What is the required 14 form of that certification? 15 MR. BRYANT: That's a question we haven't 16 answered yet, and we'll get back to that one 17 soon. 18 MR. FOSTER: Next question concerning 19 Commission turnaround time on submittals. "In 20 Attachment A, Agreement identifies turnaround 21 times for review and acceptance of the contract 22 document from 7 to 21 days. This turnaround time 23 is unacceptable on such a fast-track project. 24 Will the Commission commit to a maximum 25 turnaround time on any document of three days?" 90 1 And the answer is no. 2 MR. BRYANT: And this has already been 3 discussed earlier with Kevin Delva's 4 presentation. 5 MR. FOSTER: Question concerning abutment 6 retaining walls. "Will MSE or similar precast 7 concrete retaining wall structures be allowed to 8 retain the abutment fills?" 9 The answer is: "Retaining walls located 10 greater than 500 feet from the face of the bridge 11 abutment may be MSE." But Mitch? 12 MITCH CARR: That's correct. 13 MR. FOSTER: Mitch agrees with that. "Or 14 other similar precast retaining wall structures." 15 JOHN BRESTIN: Can I get a clarification. 16 You said 500 feet from the bridge abutment? 17 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 18 JOHN BRESTIN: John Brestin. 19 MR. FOSTER: Greater than 500 feet from 20 the front face of the bridge abutment. 21 JOHN BRESTIN: Thank you. 22 MR. FOSTER: "Agreement Section III-C.1 23 limits mobilization to 5 percent. Please confirm 24 that items such as design, geotech testing, et 25 cetera, may be included as schedule or value 91 1 items and not be included in the mobilization." 2 The description of activities that are 3 required in the PPS are included in Section 4 108.3.1.6. This includes activities for all work 5 required by the contract including detailed 6 activities for preliminary and final design work. 7 MR. BRYANT: In other words, yes. 8 MR. FOSTER: Yes. "Agreement Section 9 VI6-F states that the contractor will maintain 10 parallel services throughout any utility 11 relocation construction. Should this not be part 12 of the cost of relocation which is being paid for 13 by the Commission?" The answer is yes. We've 14 already talked about the 78-inch -- 15 "2.7, Bridge Barriers. The outside bridge 16 railings shall be 42 inches tall open-style 17 vertical concrete parapets. 2.9 Bridge Railing 18 A. Bridge deck drainage shall not be allowed to 19 pass through the see-through railings. This 20 seems to require the rail to be mounted on a 21 curb. How wide is the curb? Curb will affect 22 overall deck width." 23 The answer is the contractor is required to 24 develop a bridge rail that meets the requirements 25 of Sections 2.7 and 2.9. The width of the curb 92 1 is to be determined by the contractor. 2 MITCH CARR: Has to meet that NCHRP 350 3 criteria. 4 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 5 MR. BRYANT: A little louder, Mitch. 6 MITCH CARR: It has to meet the NCHRP 7 report 350 criteria. 8 MR. FOSTER: "2.1 or 2.10, Abutment Sea 9 Wall. A cast in place concrete sea wall shall be 10 designed and constructed to protect the bridge 11 abutment and wing walls. The sea walls shall be 12 founded on deep foundations." The question: Can 13 the foundation be precast concrete sheet pile? 14 And the answer is properly designed precast 15 concrete sheet piling may be used as deep 16 foundations. 17 "3.4.6, Bridge Approach Settlement. Bridge 18 approaches shall be constructed" -- and this is 19 the part that we've done away with, but the -- 20 I'll go ahead and read it because there's a 21 second part to it. "Bridge approaches shall be 22 constructed such that the settlement of the joint 23 between the bridge end slab and the roadway 24 pavement shall be less than a half inch at the 25 end of the warranty period." 93 1 "2.11, Retaining Walls. All retaining walls 2 within 500 feet of the bridge abutment shall be 3 constructed with cast-in-place concrete on deep 4 foundations." And the question is will we need 5 piles under the fill between the retaining walls 6 to prevent settlement of the roadway? We've 7 already addressed the half inch -- 8 MR. SHEFFIELD: Right. 9 MR. FOSTER: So the design of the fill 10 between the retaining walls to control any 11 settlement is the responsibility of the 12 contractor. 13 And the last question is "1.4.2, Bridge 14 Substructures. Bridge substructures shall be 15 reinforced concrete components supported by 16 drilled shafts or concrete piles. Pile caps, if 17 used, located in the bay shall have the bottom of 18 the pile cap at elevation .5 or lower, or -0.5 or 19 lower." Is it intended that this specification 20 preclude the use of pile bents? And the answer 21 is pile bents may be used provided they are 22 compatible with bridge pier aesthetics. 23 MITCH CARR: And also vessel collision 24 criteria. 25 MR. BRYANT: Did everybody hear that last 94 1 comment? Repeat it, Mitch. 2 MITCH CARR: In addition to bridge 3 aesthetics, it also has to meet the vessel 4 collision criteria. 5 MR. BRYANT: Is that all the questions and 6 answers? 7 MR. FOSTER: That's all the ones -- 8 MR. BRYANT: David, before you -- we're in 9 wrap-up, so anybody have some questions? 10 MIKE McKENZIE: For David. Mike McKenzie. 11 I'm utility coordinator for -- You mentioned 12 utility coordinators were going to be going out 13 and getting MOUs. Do you have a blank copy of an 14 MOU you can provide us to see what kind of 15 strength position we're going to be dealing with? 16 MR. TIPTON: We can provide it, but not at 17 this moment. We can provide it with the answers. 18 MR. BRYANT: Going once. There you go. 19 Identify. 20 TAG GOODWIN: Tag Goodwin, Parsons. 21 David, at the beginning of the questions, 22 there was a question regarding budget that may 23 have been answered previously. Would you mind 24 repeating the question and the answer for 25 clarification? 95 1 MR. FOSTER: Okay. It says, "The RFP 2 states that the current budget is approximately 3 $150 million. Will the Commission award a 4 contract which exceeds the current budget?" 5 Okay, the answer to that question is yes. 6 "Does the current budget consider the 7 current labor shortages, the added cost for 8 procuring and maintaining a labor force in the 9 project area, the cost of providing housing and 10 sustenance" -- y'all know it, food -- yes -- "for 11 the management and craft employees, the extreme 12 shortage of precast concrete product capacity, 13 cement shortages, and the limited supply of 14 floating cranes and barges all due to the 15 devastation and subsequent reconstruction 16 following Katrina?" So yes, the Commission will 17 consider awarding a contract that exceeds $150 18 million. 19 MR. BRYANT: Other questions? 20 MR. FOSTER: But please don't make me say 21 that word. 22 MR. BRYANT: Anything else? 23 KEITH JACOBSON: I do have one other 24 question. The ship impact on the two bridges, is 25 that different because of some criteria, or are 96 1 they going to be the same? 2 MITCH CARR: They are different. 3 DAVE SWEENEY: Dave Sweeney, 4 Reynolds Smith and Hill, Granite Archer Western 5 team. In the Categorical Exclusion, there's a 6 statement that says the Mississippi Department of 7 Marine Resources is currently working on 8 providing sites for concrete debris reefs. 9 What's the status of that? 10 MR. FOSTER: They have an approved permit. 11 There is a Special Provision, I believe, that 12 gives a contact name if -- for anybody who is 13 interested in pursuing that. So it's my 14 understanding they do have an approved -- they do 15 have an approved permit. 16 MR. DELVA: It would be in the gold sheet. 17 That contact would be in the gold sheet, Special 18 Provision, or you can look on the gold sheet 19 itself to get the contact point. 20 MR. BRYANT: Okay. This is your last 21 opportunity. One more. 22 TOM ELMORE: One more maybe to shorten the 23 afternoon session. Tom Elmore, Granite Archer 24 Western. If you're on the -- shortlisted for 25 both projects and you have a similar question 97 1 this afternoon, should you ask it again and go 2 through it again? 3 MR. BRYANT: I don't think he's going to 4 go on the record. If you feel like it's 5 necessary to ask it for the afternoon session to 6 get it into the record, fine. But it could make 7 the meeting a lot shorter this afternoon if you 8 didn't ask all these questions. The only ones 9 that you should really ask, in my opinion, is 10 if -- if there's other players that show up at 11 1:30 and it impacts them, perhaps we ought to ask 12 the questions. So with that, we'll -- if there's 13 a question, yes, sir. 14 JOHN BRESTIN: Could I suggest that we 15 post the minutes from this meeting for the other 16 team to make it available to them to shorten the 17 meeting as an alternative? 18 MR. BRYANT: That's a good idea. We will 19 do that. We will supply the answers to the 20 questions and the court reporter's report to the 21 teams on both projects. 22 MR. DELVA: I just want to remind all the 23 teams that at this point, we need all the 24 questions to come through their single source of 25 the contact, mainly the Project Director -- I 98 1 think the title is -- so that we're not receiving 2 questions from many different sources, and the 3 other problem is that they all come to the right 4 places. There's a location in which to send in 5 your questions, and if you use that, you'll also 6 get your answers back. 7 MR. BRYANT: Did anybody have any trouble 8 with the website? Because I understand it was 9 down a little bit this week. So if you cannot 10 have access to it, you'll probably need a backup 11 to submit it. If something goes wrong, as 12 happens -- lightning or whatever -- something 13 goes wrong with the computer system, we want to 14 give them a backup e-mail address, David? 15 MR. DELVA: The question should be sent by 16 hard copy to Harry Lee James, Document Control, 17 so that we get a copy of them. 18 MR. BRYANT: Fax will be acceptable? 19 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 20 MR. BRYANT: Okay. Well, I appreciate 21 very much you showing up, and we look forward to 22 working with you. Good luck. 23 (PROCEEDING RECESSED AT 11:30 A.M.) 24 * * * * * * 25